If you want to be inspired to make the most of your meals, listen to the interview I did with Meadow Linn. There’s a wealth of information here. The transcript is below if you’d rather read it.
This is a transcription of an interview featuring author Meadow Linn, conducted by Pamela Ziemann. Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba0ugBn6g-Q&feature=youtu.be.
Transcription dated April 3rd, 2013.
Pamela: Hello, and welcome. This is Pamela Ziemann, with Elemental Cuisine, Magical Foods From the Plant Kingdom. And I feel so lucky to be sitting across the table from Meadow Linn. Author of The Mystic Cookbook. Welcome, Meadow!
Meadow: Thank you. What a joy to be here!
Pamela: Yeah, first day of spring.
Meadow: Yeah, what a beautiful day.
Pamela: Ya-hoo. Yeah, well, when I first heard about your cookbook, I was so jazzed to get it, because, there’s really, no other cookbook that I’ve ever seen like this. And it was on my calender, ‘Buy it the day it comes out!’
Meadow: (laughs) I love that.
Pamela: The cookbook. Have you found that, sometimes people think it’s going to be a regular cookbook, and then they open it up, and find these legendary and, and mystical-type, eh, experiences, that you weave throughout the book?
Meadow: You know, it is true, that ‘cookbook’ is in the title, so some people expect that it will be a book simply of recipes. And while that it is part of it, it’s so much more. That, as you said, there aren’t aren’t other books like it. And it’s really more of a cookbook for life. If you will, that, that the way that we, uh, approach our meals can dictate how we approach our life. And when you savor your meals, you savor your life. Food is central to our every-day existence, and it can deeply affect our experience of the world, and so we give tips, and techniques, and strategies for ways that you can approach your food to bring more joy and happiness into your meals, and into your life. And, there are recipes in there, as well, and, uh, I think they’re really delicious, and I hope others do as well, but there’s a lot more, as well.
Pamela: There is so much more. And when I think about the concept of this cookbook, I think it’s so necessary on our planet right now. When I, look back. Growing up, my mom was a very hard worker. She was working out in the fields in Minnesota, and we basically got a pot roast and a carrot, and it was just pretty much what she could throw in the oven, and feed us. And it, you know, it, it was a lot for her, but I never really felt nourished. My spirit, my creativity, it always seemed like there was something lacking. And in your book, you talk about, you know, really putting that energy, and the essence, into preparing the food, serving the food, and really being in communion with people, and nurturing our spirit.
Meadow: It is so true, and especially in this country. We talk a lot about food, as simply, physical nourishment. That is a means to an end. It’s way of taking in calories, of fuel, and we forget that, food is- nourishes us, nurtures us, yes, (laughs) on a much deeper level. And it fills those physical appetite, um, a, physical appetites, of course, but our spiritual appetites, our emotional, our mental appetites …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … As well. And sometimes we forget that. And we, we’re bereft. Because we’re not living a fully balanced life, that, uh, is, tha- did a study at the University of Pennsylvania. The psychology department. And they asked French women to describe chocolate cake …
Pamela: Mmm.
Meadow … And the French women, used the word, ‘celebration.’
Pamela: Aha.
Meadow: And when the French women were asked about an egg, they said ‘meal.’
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: And then when the American women were asked. For the chocolate cake they said ‘guilt.’
Pamela: Wow.
Meadow: And for the egg, ‘cholesterol,’ that we often- and this is a generalization, but many of us in this country, reduce food to its nutritive qualities. That we eat a carrot because it has beta-carotene. Not simply because it’s gorgeous …
Pamela: And the color!
Meadow: … And the bright orange color, and tha- that earthy flavor, and you’re tasting it, you know the so- I mean you’re not tasting this, but, you know, you’re feeling connected to the earth. Or a pomegranate. We eat it because it has antioxidants, not because of those sensual, luscious …
Pamela: Mmm.
Meadow: … Seeds, and that crimson juice that just runs down your chin. Well, that’s, you know, a component of it, and it’s important to have antioxidents, and have beta-carotene, but sometimes we’ve forgot’n, that there is a larger, picture there. And that joy and conviviality that you see in France, and in other parts of Europe, especially, but in many traditional cultures. Where food is about celebration, and ritual. And, it is connected to our spirituality. That it’s deeply- you known in traditional cu- cultures, food and religion, are deeply connected …
Pamela: Mmh.
Meadow … And we- we’ve lost that in this country.
Pamela: We have. I think a lot of us have heard the term, ‘Don’t play with your food.’ And maybe it was because our parents grew up during the depression, and it was like this, (gasps), ‘Don’t play with your food!’ And now I’m just like out there trying to teach people to play with your food.
Meadow: Yeah!
Pamela: You know? And have fun with it!
Meadow: Yeah, I think so, too. And of course, there’s, there’s a place for manners. And there’s, not, you know, eating with your hands and …
Pamela: Food fights! (Giggles)
Meadow: … And yeah, or food fights. When you’re eating in a four-star French restaurant. But there’s also that element of play, and joy, that is lacking. That food should be fun.
Pamela: And using our hands more to get in there and really feel the food.
Meadow: And it’s so tactile, and, food is sensual. Sensual in that it, in that- meaning that it’s sensory. Multi-sensory. That it engages our eyes, our ears, our nose, our mouth, our hands, and even sometimes the sixth sense, as well. And that- all of that, when you are taking time to slow down, and eat mindfully. All of those senses are engaged, and it, it deepens that experience, and, well, it’s just that much more fun and tasty.
Pamela: So, can you tell us more about even the sixth sense?
Meadow: Yeah, there’s a lot of ways that you can use your intuition in cooking. I mean, the first on a more practical level is- you know, eh, I think it’s a bit of an oxymoron that we’ve created a cookbook that encourages you, not to use recipes, to cook from intuition.
Pamela: I love it!
Meadow: (Laughs) But there are a lot of ways by, just as the painter, like, I’ve studied, uh, French cultural studies. I have a master’s degree in French cultural studies. And, you know, a painter like Matisse, who, painted very basic bright colors, in, you know, seemingly simplistic fashion. He actually trained as a classical painter. And, I went to some of his, ehr, or I went to a gallery, in the south of France, in Nice, where they had some of his earlier works. And it was very representational, and then you could see as he went later in life how he became Matisse, and had all these bright colors. And it’s the same with cooking, that, it’s helpful to know the basics. Know what food’s …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … Pair well together. And, how to chop, uhm, which knives to use for which things. But once you have that understanding, and, you know, another good way to do that is to watch cooking show … programs on TV. Or read cookbooks, or go to the grocery store and experiment. Every time you go, buy something that you’ve never used before, some- or something you’ve never tasted and experimented with it. And then, once you get the basics down, you can go beyond that, as Matisse did. And create your own concoctions, if you will …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … Your own kitchen alchemy. Using your culinary intuition, based on your previous knowledge.
Pamela: And I think that leads right into trusting ourselves more. The more we go, ‘Well, let me try this, and this,’ rather than following exactly. Like you said, foundational stuff is great, got to have that. But then after a while to just trust ourselves and say, ‘Let me play with this. Let me see what this tastes like.’
Meadow: Exactly. And trust is important. And then the next step, of using your intuition, is really using your intuition. That you can, you can ask your higher self, ‘What does my, what- what do I need, now? What works for me?’ Because we’re constantly bombarded with information. You know, on Facebook, or magazine articles, or a new university research, telling us what to eat. And the tr- it changes all the time!
Pamela: Uh-huh. Right.
Meadow: You know last week egg-abe(?) was God’s gift to man, now it’s …
Pamela: Stay away from it!
Meadow: Yeah, you know? And half, you know, and then, you know, then someone will tell you, you know, always eat raw. Always eat paleo. Always eat vegan. Always eat, whatever it is. And the truth is, there’s not any one diet, that work for everyone. And so using your intuition to see what works for your own personal physical needs, and what’s also in alignment with your beliefs. And your, your religious beliefs, your spiritual beliefs, your past experien- …
Pamela: Values.
Meadow: … Ces, your values. And that’s when your intuition can come into play. And an exercise that you can do, that we write about in the Mystic Cookbook. Is simply closing your eyes, and either holding that ingredient in your hand, or picturing it. And then imagine, a stoplight. And you imagine, red for, ‘Noo, stay away.’ Green for, ‘Go for it,’ and the yellow’s kinda neutral. Or, you know, if you’re not so visual. You can assign sounds. Or you can imagine a cosmic scale. And there are different way that you can use your intuition to see, really, what does work for you. And, y- you see that with children. I had a friend, when she was growing up, she hated drinking milk. And her mom forced her to drink it, because that was … common, s- you sense at the time, that was conventional wisdom. ‘Feed your kids milk, and they’ll grow strong and healthy.’ But she had the wisdom, that that wasn’t right for her, and it wasn’t until she was in her twenties, which she discovered, that she was lactose intolerant.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: And that wasn’t a good match for her body. And as a child, she recognized that, but many of us suppress it.
Pamela: Yeah. And I’ve even heard, with kids, they intuitively know that some of the greens can be poisonous. And so they want to stay away, because bitter equals poison. A possibility …
Meadow: Aah.
Pamela: … Of poison, and you think, you know. All these parents, well intended, are going, ‘Eat this, and eat this.’ And then the kid intuitively is saying ‘No-no-no. That could kill me!’
Meadow: Oh, that’s fascinating.
Pamela: Isn’t that interesting? So I think we all have to cut ourselves a little bit of slack, and just really tune into that intuitive feel. And if you could talk about the difference between an addiction versus intuition. Because sometimes people will be saying, ‘But I want that hamburger! My body wants it!’
Meadow: Right, and that is an important distinction. Because often we crave, what we are allergic to. So, it’s being tuned in enough to your own body, and your own intuition, to … excuse me. But to recognize, that difference, between that craving, and that feeling of, ‘I need it. I need it.’ And …
Pamela: And how do you do that?
Meadow: … It can be. Yeah, it can be conflicting with, your, intuition. And one way is to simply take time to quiet your mind.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: And take deep breaths, and even take yourself on a little inner journey. Or just, to, you know, meditate a little bit or relax. Just, you know, take deep breaths and really ask yourself. And then, there’s always, you know, other options as well. Of, if there is something that you were really craving. And often those are things that conventional wisdom’s telling us aren’t particularly that healthy, anyway. But, you know, if it’s sugar, or caffeine, or carbohydrates. Then it’s also, it could be potentially worth getting, some tests …
Pamela: Uhuh.
Meadow: … As well. To see if it is actually food sensitivity or an allergy that is leading you toward that. But if you really are … slow down your mind and really ask yourself. Your higher knowing …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow … Often. Can tell you that maybe that’s not right.
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: And also just recognizing how you feel. Because, you know, sometimes I will eat something that my mind really wants. And afterwards, I don’t feel that good.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: But, I chalk it up to something else. Or I ignore it. Or I just, I- go on with my life, and I forget that it didn’t make me feel that good, until the next time I have it. You know? Ice-cream was like that for me, for years. I mean, who doesn’t love ice-cream? But I always felt kinda crummy …
Pamela: Mmm.
Meadow: … Afterwards. But sometimes it was worth it.
Pamela: Mmm.
Meadow: But eventually when I, removed dairy from my, diet, I felt better.
Pamela: Aha.
Meadow: (laughs) And so, it made sense to, um.
Pamela: You know, it sounds simple. And it sounds easy. But it’s probably one of the biggest challenges that people have. To actually to take time, to slow down. Uh, in this society, and myself included, I find myself, ‘Why am I going so fast?’ And, uh, it’s, it’s very important, ah, the whole sympathetic versus parasympathetic system. Where we don’t digest fully, if we’re in that fight-or-flight mode. So it isn’t just a nice thing, it’s not a luxury to say, ‘Slow down.’ It’s really critical, and that’s what your book is so great, about, really encouraging people to take time, to be more mindful …
Meadow: And what …
Pamela: … With their food.
Meadow: .. And what you say about the fight-or-flight is interesting, too. Because, that tends to, get ignited when we’re stressed when were eating.
Pamela: Mmm.
Meadow: And so many of us are, stressed …
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: … All the time. Either about life in general. Work, family pressures, or about the food that we’re eating.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: Because a lot of us, want to eat healthy, or want to eat a certain way, but we don’t. And then we’re stressed, that we’re not. And so we’re judging ourselves. For …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … The food that were eating. And we’re judging our food. And then that fight-or-flight response gets ignited, and your cortisol levels are up. So you’re stressed. Or you’re, you’re get stressed, so your cortisol levels go up, and then your body holds on to all of those calories. Because it thinks that an enemy is pursuing you. We h- we haven’t evolved yet to realize that most of us don’t have serious enemies.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: That we might feel like we do …
Pamela: Right.
Meadow: And it holds on to all those calories. So only are you beating yourself up, about eating that food, or judging yourself about the food, or, you know, dealing with everything else in your life. You’re actually putting on weight, because that’s your body’s response of, protecting yourself.
Pamela: That reminds me of a book I read recently. It’s called Dying to be Me. And this woman …
Meadow: By Anita Moorjani…
Pamela: Yeah! Did you read that?
Meadow: Um no, but I’ve heard her speak a couple of times …
Pamela: Yeah!
Meadow: … She’s wonderful.
Pamela: She went to the near-death experience, and the thing that really stood out for me was, how she said. Um, she realized, most of her choices were made out of fear. ‘Oh, don’t eat that, don’t eat that, look at h- GMO, Ah!’ And you know, we have to be aware of these things. But yet, to make choices out of love, versus fear, she said, was huge. For her.
Meadow: It’s powerful, and it’s amazing to see her speak, too. And sh- she had a very serious illness, and came back from it after a near-death experience, and real- and she’s so full of love, and light. And just b- simply from recognizing that life is about love, and that we are, often so stressed that- and, I’m not implying that, (laughs) I mean I get plenty stressed myself …
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: … And I have to remind myself to slow down, and savor. And, whether it’s savoring a delicious, apple, or a fancy meal, or simply a weed, that’s strong enough to grow out of a crack in the pavement. And, those moments, and it doesn’t have to take time, or money, to, you know, notice that beautiful flower. That it can have such an impact on our life.
Pamela: So what would you say to people who, who say, ‘I just don’t have time? You don’t know my life. I don’t have time.’ What would you say to help them out if they’re just, some people don’t want to hear it, and that’s cool, but other people are kind of riding the fence. Like, they want to slow down, but they don’t feel like they can.
Meadow: And that’s tricky, because, I know that feeling.
Pamela: Mmm.
Meadow: I just wrote a book! (laughs)
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: And I felt like during that time, that sometimes I, uh, was writing a book about slowing down, and sometimes …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … I feel like I got a deadline …
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: … I can’t slow down. (laughs) I can’t. And one of the things that kept me sane, throughout the past few years, during this birthing process, of this book, for me, and many people of different types of self-care, that are important to nurturing yourself. For me it was making dinner. Every night. And I made that a priority. Then I stopped, every evening, sometimes I would go back to work after dinner, but I would stop, and take that time, to make myself a meal, and sit down, and enjoy it. And for me, that really kept me sane.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: And, you know not everybody can afford the time or the money to get a massage, or to go to yoga, or to go a spa, or get your nails done, you know, whatever it is. But we have to eat.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: So when you take that time, and I- I use the word ‘time,’ the word time here liberally. Elip- not, liberal. It doesn’t have to take a lot of time …
Pamela: (laughs)
Meadow: … Is what I’m trying to say.
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: Because you, you can do it with you with take-out.
Pamela: With your intention.
Meadow: E- yeah, exactly. That’s a good way of putting it. You can do it with take-out. It doesn’t have to be home-cooked.
Pamela: Uhuh.
Meadow: For me. For me, the process of cooking helps me slow down.
Pamela: Uhuh.
Meadow: But for somebody else it can be take-out. But, you know, put it on a beautiful plate. Sit down, maybe you light a candle, pour yourself a glass of wine. And that can that be a wonderful way of nurturing yourself. And slowing down. And as I said, you have to eat. So why not add a couple more minutes of mindfulness …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … To get that. And for someone who’s really, really busy, and just doesn’t feel like they possibly can at all. Another great thing you can do is- most of us drink tea or coffee in the morning. And if its- or maybe it’s green juice. Whatever that beverage is, that kind of helps you feel like you’re getting your morning started. Spend five minutes. Maybe ten, if you can spare it. And sit down with that beverage. And, you know, it doesn’t have to be, this big event. But just sit down- notice, you know, if you put cream in your coffee. Does it swirl and spin …
Pamela: Mmm.
Meadow: How does, you know, does the steam dance as it comes off? Hold the mug between your hands, and feel it, you know? Listen to the out- the morning sounds. Are there birds chirping? Is there a trash collector? You know? A big truck driving down the road.
Pamela: And as your stirring it. Before I came to this interview, I made your magic elixir of the hot chocolate.
Meadow: Ooow!
Pamela: Yeah …
Meadow: (Laughs)
Pamela: … I just felt like having that, and I didn’t have a lot of time in between, either, but I thought, you know what? I got out the whisk, and I just followed your, your video and it’s like, OK. Stir in some love, and you know, put in a little bit of, um, chili powder in there, and it was really great. And it didn’t take that long.
Meadow: Right.
Pamela: I think, like they say in yoga, the hardest part is getting the mat out.
Meadow: (Laughs) yeah.
Pamela: The hardest part is getting your cutting board out …
Meadow: Yeah.
Pamela: … Or whatever utensil you need.
Meadow: That’s so true. And that can be, you know, that morning beverage, it can be a way to start
your day, mindfully.
Pamela: Right.
Meadow: And it only takes five or ten minutes. And some people, ‘I don’t have time for that!’ But if you really, kl- most of us can spare five minutes.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: And if you- or get up five minutes earlier, which I know for me, back when I was getting up for work. That extra five would have been hard, (laughs) to get out of bed. But if you can. That can be a wonderful way. And, most, you know, as I said, we can spare five minutes …
Pamela: Yeah. Sets the stage.
Meadow … And slow down.
Pamela: Yeah, there’s a book called The Speed of Trust. And he talks about how much faster everything else goes in our life if we set the foundation from a slow … place, to begin with. And that book was really great, because I think a lot of us have been in this mindset of, ‘Hurry up!’ And then we can relax. But it’s actually the other way around, is what I’m finding. It’s like, take that time, it’ll be so worth it.
Meadow: It’s true. I- I always think. As soon as I get finished with my emails, then I can move on …
Pamela: Right.
Meadow: … To the next project. But you never finish your emails.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: Because as soon as you send it, another one comes in. So eventually you have to just stop, and set that aside, and slow down …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … Or do what that other things is. Because we, if we’re always looking at getting to that next place, before we do the other thing. We never do the other thing. (laughs)
Pamela: You have some great affirmations in your book. I loved this part. And I wonder if you could tell our listeners, what would be a good affirmation for somebody who is worried about money?
Meadow: Oh, wow. And that is a wonderful question, because so many people, are, and we write in the Mystic Cookbook about creating, an abundance meal.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: And food, bec- a- as I mentioned before, it’s so essential to life. Food is a wonderful way to set the template, for … opening our hearts to what it is we want in life. So an abundance meal, can either be, abundance of lots of different foods, so you feel opulent. Kind of that cornucopia.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: Or, it can be having very few items, but of the highest quality. And a lot of people can- associate the color gold with abundance. Or green, because green is so abundant in nature. So you might s- have green foods. Or maybe you set the table in hues of green. And then you cook with that intention. Has your- pealing the vegetables. I’m pealing away things that do not serve me. And you can repeat that to yourself.
Pamela: Mmm.
Meadow: And I’m, you kno- I’m chopping away, you know, the excess that I don’t need. And then as you’re stirring. You’re stirring in what you do need, and then as- you can put those affirmations and that intention into the food. I’m affirming that … my life is filled with what I need. And, you know, to do so in gratitude, when we ask for specific things, it’s not as … useful, or as powerful, often, as when we’re …
Pamela: Mmm.
Meadow: … Open to what works for our highest good. And that we want to feel a sense of abundance. Or, wealth, of all permutations of it. Because sometimes what we think we want, ends up not being what really works the best for us. But so you create those affirmations of, you know, abundance is flowing into my life. Or, I am in the flow. And you can say those, as you’re cooking. You can also write them on a piece of paper, and put them under the plates …
Pamela: Mmm.
Meadow: … When you’re serving. You know, or, as I said, I’m in the flow, or abundance is flowing into my life. Or, you know, if it’s love, my heart is opening, or I am filled with love. Or I am loved and loving. And, uh, it’s really fun when you put ’em, because no one really even has to know. Or you can tape them under the table, so that no- you know, especially if you’re with people who might not, you know might think that’s kind of weird …
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: … Or ‘woow, woow.’ You can just tape it underneath.
Pamela: (laughs) shhh!
Meadow: (laughs) yeah!
Pamela: I get some people in my class. And I talk about this, too. And it seems like about half the people are, like, ‘Yeah, that makes sense! Totally’ And then half the people are looking at me like I’m crazy. Like, ‘Seriously?’ That I believe, that it works.
Meadow: And the thing is, whe- when pe-, and you know I- I’m skeptical about a lot of stuff, too. A- and I grew up with it. But I’m still often really skeptical, but, it never hurts to try.
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: And that’s what my mom used to teach a lot of Feng Shui. And a lot of the traditional, Chinese cures, seem pretty superstitious. They don’t necessarily make sense, or apply to modern …
Pamela: Common sense …
Meadow: … Western world. Some is very common sense, and some of it just seems superstitious.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: You know, putting a mirror under your bed. Or (laughs), you know … but what she would tell her students, you know, try …
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: … See if it works. There’s no harm in trying. And if it doesn’t work for you, stop.
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: And if it does, keep it up. Even if you can’t rationally understand. And so, for so much of this stuff, you know, if it seems weird, or you feel stupid, or crazy. Well, you don’t have to do it. Or, if you want, try it, and see. And then if it doesn’t work …
Pamela: Don’t do it.
Meadow: Don’t do it.
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: (laughs)
Pamela: Yeah. I think we’ve all tasted a meal that was cooked with love. And it doesn’t have to have any, you know, mystical language with it, or anything like that. But you know when people love you, and they create the meal out of love. Versus, somebody who’s stressed out, making that same meal.
Meadow: And it makes a difference. Sometimes you know, you’ve probably had that experience, where you go to a restaurant and you leave feeling really happy.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: Or, really kind of tense or cranky. And you can’t attribute it to anything. Um, sometimes you can. But sometimes when you can’t. It can be that energy of that chef …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … Or, the server. And that does go into the food.
Pamela: Yeah. When I was at Living Light, they had this example of a buffet, they made the same thing every, every week, for everyone. And this one time, this woman was having a really hard time. And they said food was left on the buffet, and that never happened, before. So …
Meadow: Wow.
Pamela: … That energy, just came right through, and, people were like, just not into it.
Meadow: Yeah, isn’t that amazing how you can eat the same thing, many times, and one time it just doesn’t taste that good.
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: (laughs) you know? It’s, it’s- sometimes it’s hard to wrap my mind around that. I think, I- I say it’s true, and I then wonder how can that really be true? But empirical, you know, evidence seems to show …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … That it is. And I was talking to someone a while back, who said at a, uh, local festival or farmers market by where she lives. There was a number of coffee stalls, but one always had a line around the block. And so she asked the guy, ‘So why is your line always so long? You sell exactly the same thing as everybody else.’ And he said that he put love in his coffee.
Pamela: Aaaw.
Meadow: And he didn’t advertise that. But obviously …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … People were picking it up.
Pamela: That’s cool. Yeah. So great affirmations. So what about somebody who is dealing with
health issues? What kind of affirmations could they use?
Meadow: A great one for that is … eh, um, ah, just simp- health, and vitality, are flooding my life. Or, I am healthy and vital. Or I am filled with, once again, those words, vitality, health, are really good words. And, you know, it’s important. There’s an old, uh, I can’t remember if it’s Sanskrit, or with, um, saying it is, but, you know, ‘trust in God and tie up your camel.’
Pamela: Mmhm.
Meadow: That, uh, you know, with affirmations especially when it comes to health, it’s good to affirm the, the positive, and make that a reality in your life. Something that you see and feel. Because, they say, you know, act as if …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … and, or, fake it until you make it, and you feel that well. It feel, you know that way, but also, it’s good to then, start to take steps toward …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … Things that will make you healthier.
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: More vital. Whether that’s going to an exercise class. Or, adding a new green vegetable into your diet.
Pamela: It’s almost like you’re taking that action from a place of love. And, and, affirming that everything is gonna be OK. Rather than taking that same action, from a place of, ‘Oh, my God! I have to do that.’ I-it’s just, totally, totally different.
Meadow: Yeah.
Pamela: You talk about, um, there’s a quote in there. It says, ‘The consciousness of food, depends on the consciousness of the cook.’ Which is pretty much what we’ve been talking …
Meadow: It is.
Pamela: … About. But it all goes in.
Meadow: And, um, my- on my mom’s side we are Native, we are of Native American heritage. And our ancestors believed that the rocks, and the Sun, and the sea, and the wind, all have a form of consciousness. And obviously different than how we understand consciousness in humans, or even in animals, but that, that idea that everything has a form of a spirit. And, when you take those elements, from nature, and what our f-fruits, and vegetables, and our grains that we eat. It has a form of consciousness … and then we take that into our body. And then that cook, who also infuses that food in that way that, um, Einstein, and we quote this in the book as well, said, ‘That, that the way we understand matter. We’ve all been wrong.’ And I’m v- very poorly paraphrasing him. But, but that, everything is made up of energy and vibration.
Pamela: Not of matter.
Meadow: Right.
Pamela: We’ve had it backwards.
Meadow: Right. Exactly. But then everything picks up energy, and I like to use the example of a snowball. When you’re making a snowman. Especially with that wet snow …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … Like you get here in Seattle.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: It picks up a lot of snow. And that little snowball keeps growing and growing, and it makes this massive snowball that you can use as the base of your snowman. And it’s like that with food. That it picks up that energy and vibration along its journey. And so it makes sense, then, that that consciousness of the cook, also infuses the food. But you know, all is not lost, if you got a really cranky cook. Or, or you know, it’s hav- come from a factory. In the book we give suggestions of ways you can continue to put energy and vibration into your food …
Pamela: Like blessing it.
Meadow: … You can say grace. You can hold your hands over it. Some people do crystals. You know …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … How- however out there want to get. There’s, you know, lots of different ways you can do it. And your own intention. When you’re eating. That can all infuse the food. So even when you’re eating processed food- ’cause even those of us who try not to, it’s, pervasive in our society.
Pamela: And you talked about Doctor Emoto in your book, as well. I loved that, that whole study he did with the water crystals. Can you talk more about that?
Meadow: Yeah, it’s so fascinating that, and you know, there’s still a part of me that has trouble believing it. But, it’s real-, it’s backed up in science, and it’s fascinating that, you know, I’m sure many of your listeners are familiar with Doctor Emoto’s work. That they froze, water, and then looked at the water crystals, and the water that had positive affirmations, and love given to it, actually had water considered more beautiful. Water crystals are more symmetrical, the ones that had negative energy infused into that water, were jagged, and rough, and- and they froze them, so that they could see the particles in the water. And my favorite bit about Doctor Emoto’s studies is the one with rice. Where they gave school children, two vials, or jars of white rice, cooked rice. And every day, for I think it was for a month, the school children said, ‘I love you,’ to one jar of rice. And the other jar, they said, ‘You fool!’ At the end, of the study, and it was multiple weeks, the ‘you fool’ rice was black …
Pamela: Aaah.
Meadow: … And moldy. And the ‘I love you’ rice, was perfect.
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: And it still, I can’t quite wrap my mind around it. But it’s a study that’s been re-created multiple times. It’s won now that … school children, you know, in the States do, too …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow … Just for fun. Or people do it at home. And everyone has … they did some interesting studies, and this isn’t in the book, I- but similar to Doctor Yemoto’s in, in, uh, in Germany. I think it was the University of Stuttgart, and this is a recent study, where they had vials of tap water, but different people, have you heard this study?
Pamela: Mh-mh.
Meadow: They had different people hold each of those vials, and then like Doctor Yemoto, they, they froze them and they looked at the ice crystals. Over and over again. The people who held each one … every time, their vial, the ice crystals looked the same.
Pamela: Huh.
Meadow: Does that make sense? Did I explain it?
Pamela: So they’re holding it. And just by holding it, it would form …
Meadow: Their personal vibration …
Pamela: Oh, OK.
Meadow: … Would go into the water, apparently. And then when they froze that water and tested it, and then they would do it again, and again, and again. And every time that one person. Their ice crystals looked the same.
Pamela: Wow.
Meadow: Then somebody else, but the water was the same. The only variable was the person who
touched the water.
Pamela: That. Is. Amazing.
Meadow: (laughs) I know.
Pamela: And it’s really helpful to hear you say that, you can always bless it. (laughs) So, you know …
Meadow: (laughs) yeah, right.
Pamela: … We can’t always control people’s energy. And how they’re feeling that day, and all of
that. But we can always bless it.
Meadow: Right, and that, you know what? It comes down to as well, is what we were talking about before the idea. When- now we say, ‘Oh, no, fear is bad.’ Now we’re talking about all the things that potentially could …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … Could be seri- and what it comes down to is, no matter what, enjoy your food.
Pamela: Ahah.
Meadow: Savor it. Whether it’s, you know, factory processed … whatever terrible, or some really cranky person touched it or …
Pamela: (giggles)
Meadow: … It’s the most wonderfully …
Pamela: (laughs)
Meadow: … Raised. What it comes down to- whatever you’re eating, the more joy you can find …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … The more joy you’ll have.
Pamela: Yeah. That’s great. So, have you ever felt burnt out from cooking, and what do you do?
M- maybe you love it so much? I love it in the book where your mom says, ‘I can go over to Meadow’s house … ‘
Meadow: (laughs)
Pamela: … ‘And there she is with her candles lit. And she’s just eating this fabulous meal.’ It’s like, that is very, cool, to think. For one, that you’re just doing it if you’re eating by yourself. You still create that beautiful experience. Do you ever find that, ‘I just don’t want to cook tonight?’
Meadow: I love cooking. And for me, you know som- like an artist is compelled to paint. And a musician is compelled to make music. For me, I am compelled to create, through food. But of course, sometimes there’s nights when, you know, I there- I’ve been- responding to all those emails for too long, and, um, I get take-out.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: Or, you know, so I don’t … I f- I leave myself room for flexibility. But I always love cooking. But sometimes, you know, life intervenes. And also, after, I cater my mom’s retreats … and generally after nine days of making three meals a day, for twenty-five people. I take a few days off.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: And don’t cook! (laughs)
Pamela: Yeah. But I can’t imagine you’re the kind of person that eats out of a cardboard box.
Meadow: Not, often. I try to, I prefer to put it on a nice plate. But, once again, if you’re out and about …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … And there’s no other option …
Pamela: Right.
Meadow: … I’ll go and sit in a park with my cardboard box and enjoy …
Pamela: So you are human! Yay!
Meadow: … Enjoy the scenery while I eat out of that cardboard box! (laughs)
Pamela: Right. (laughs)
Meadow: It’s all about balance.
Pamela: Yeah. Yeah. So tell me, when you are working with your mom, on her retreats. When, are you still doing that?
Meadow: Mmmh.
Pamela: Are you still cooking?
Meadow: Yeah.
Pamela: So how do you cater to all the different food priorities?
Meadow: Yeah. (laughs)
Pamela: Some people want vegan. Some people want gluten-free. Or kosher. Of all these different things, I have a lot of people in my classes say, you know, just within their own family. It’s really hard to create two different meals.
Meadow: And it can be tricky, because, now so many people have very strong beliefs about what is the right way to eat, and what works for them. And that can be difficult. But, as I told you before we started, I am a Libra. So (laughs) I’m …
Pamela: Uhuh.
Meadow: … All about the balance. And typically what I do, is I try to make enough different dishes, so that there’s something for everybody. And if there is a specific, you know, a serious allergy, then of course. If someone has a shellfish allergy …
Pamela: Uhuh. Yeah.
Meadow: I take very careful precautions with that. But generally, it’s, you know, it’s finding the balances in other word- I’m gonna use that word again! And, you know, pro- a little bit for everybody. And I do serve chicken and fish, usually, but so that on the nights that there’s chicken, there’s enough vegetarian options, or a vegetarian, ehm, main course al- also, or, what’s the word I’m … option!
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: For those who don’t. But then they know that the next night, the dinner will be vegetarian.
Pamela: Uhuh.
Meadow: So it goes kind of in a cycle.
Pamela: So your cortisol levels don’t get real high! (laughs)
Meadow: Right! (laughs)
Pamela: It’s all about keeping it cool. You know? How can we all live together on this planet?
Meadow: And that, that’s a good way to look at it. And when I’m doing those, that … that you know,
like you said, some people will have, you kn- say, ‘Oh, my family will have to make multiple meals!’
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: I’ve also learned, and I’ve been doing it for eighteen years.
Pamela: Ahah.
Meadow: So I’ve learned that there are certain dishes … I just don’t make. Because, if you’re gonna have to make a lasagna. One with meat and cheese, one with meat, no cheese, one vegetarian, one vegan, you’re making five different lasa- …
Pamela: Uhuh.
Meadow … gnes. Maybe it would be smart, to not make lasagna!
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: (laughs) So that’s something I’ve learned as well, too. But that also comes with years of practice. (laughs)
Pamela: Mmmh, mmmh. And what about picky eaters? A lot of mom’s come in. They have kids that are just so hard to … um, to please. With something healthy.
Meadow: And you know, there’s a wonderful book about that called French Kids Eat Everything. And as I mentioned, I have a master’s degree in French cultural studies, and I- studied, I lived in Paris, and I wrote my thesis on the history and sociology of eating in France, so this is something …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … I’m passionate about. And in France, children aren’t very picky, in general. Because it’s so much a part of their culture. And from a very young age, they’re introduced to a wide variety of foods. Mostly in puré form. Puré ve- beets, puréd zucchini.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: And, they say, that it takes a child eight to fifteen times, if they’re- if they don’t like it the first time, to try it again, before they like it.
Pamela: Uhuh.
Meadow: And then they will. So, many of us will give our children, something that kid says, ‘No, I hate that.’ And they never try again.
Pamela: Uhuh.
Meadow: In France the children are encouraged. They say, ‘You don’t have to eat it. You just have to try it.’
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: So one bite, and then maybe a week or two later, they’ll have it again. They say, ‘Don’t have to like it. You don’t have to eat it. But you have to try it.’
Pamela: Eight to fifteen times, it takes.
Meadow: Eight to fifteen times, when you do that. You will like it.
Pamela: Uhuh.
Meadow: And here we’re drinking kombucha.
Pamela: Uhuh.
Meadow: And I have to say. The first time I tried kombucha, they were giving out free samples at my co-op in Santa Monica. I like everything … I did not like that a- kombucha. I actually, and I like to be pretty polite, so I actually had to run and hide, so the guy wouldn’t see me spit it out.
Pamela: Oh, you didn’t even swallow it?
Meadow: I think I, actually, I probably swallowed it. But I was like, ‘Gnaaaaw!’
Pamela: (laughs)
Meadow: (laughs) you know all these terrible grimaces, and that’s unusual. I mean, I was the kid
that … that told my parents that I would eat any sushi as long as it wasn’t still … alive.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: Because one time we went out for sushi, and it was still wriggling …
Pamela: Oh, boy.
Meadow: … On the rice. And I was probably eight. So I like everything, but I did not like that kombucha. But now, as I was telling you, I brew my own. Because I’ve tasted it over time, and it wasn’t actually, that wasn’t even a conscious decision, like, ‘I am going to like kombucha.’
Pamela: Uhuh.
Meadow: But by tasting it multiple times. I actually grew a taste for it.
Pamela: Mmh.
Meadow: So it’s a wonderful thing for parents of picky children, and the earlier you can start, the better. But just that idea of … try it, try it.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: Taste it. Because sometimes especially kids think they don’t like something. Because a friend doesn’t like it. Or someone told them …
Pamela: Right.
Meadow: … That it’s not good. But they actually, they’re not basing that on their own …
Pamela: Uhuh.
Meadow: … Knowledge. And another great way, is to get children in the kitchen.
Pamela: Mmh.
Meadow: Get children growing their food. And when they grow it, or when they cook it … they have a connection to it. And a child who’s never eaten Brussel sprouts, ever before. You make, you offer the child the opportunity to cook those Brussel sprouts themselves, and the chances are, he will try it.
Pamela: Yeah. Hold them in your hand, they’re totally fun to hold.
Meadow: (laughs)
Pamela: Yeah. And then I- I don’t know of anybody who really likes to be told what to do. So if you have somebody telling you, ‘You have to eat that! You have to eat it!’ It’s like, they’re probably not going to like it.
Meadow: Right. Exactly.
Pamela: So what I like to do is just put all this healthy food on the table, and just say, ‘Pick whatever you want! And it’s all good.’
Meadow: And, and just along that same lines, is … modeling good eating behavior …
Pamela: Mmm.
Meadow: In front of your child …
Pamela: Oh, that’s key!
Meadow: … That. Children eat, what others eats. An in France, once again, they will, it’s a part of the curriculum, in the, the pre-schools, is to introduce children to good food. And if there’s a child who particularly doesn’t like one thing, they’ll often sit them next to a child …
Pamela: Ooh.
Meadow: … Who does like that. At at home, when a parent says, ‘I like eating this.’
Pamela: Uhuh.
Meadow: The child does.
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: For year- well, even now. I really don’t care for, like, that kind of, sligh- you know, uncooked egg whites.
Pamela: Uhuh.
Meadow: I mean. A lot of people don’t but (laughs), but my mom told me, and I didn’t realize, she only just told me this recently. I never minded that as a child. It wasn’t until I spent time with my grandmother …
Pamela: Ooh.
Meadow … Who also …
Pamela: Right.
Meadow: … Doesn’t like, slightly undercooked …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … Egg whites. And then I came back, and I said, ‘I hate that.’
Pamela: Isn’t that funny?
Meadow: And now I’m thirty-five. And I’m still a little wary of undercooked egg whites.
Pamela: Grandma. (laughs)
Meadow: Yeah. (laughs)
Pamela: I had a woman in my class once, I loved her example ’cause she was trying to get her kids off dairy, and so, she would get this alternative, and she’d say, ‘This is mommy’s cheese. This is mommy’s.‘ And then pretty soon, they go, ‘I want that! I want that.’ So, you know. It’s all, it’s all, fun to explore, and just to, really, again, trust our own body and, and do what we can to eat as healthy as possible. And enjoy every bite.
Meadow: Yeah. (laughs)
Pamela: You know, I love your book because, you guys, I think you’re probably the only ones who
can include fairies …
Meadow: Yeah. (laughs)
Pamela: … In a book on cooking. And I’m like, eh, I love these guys …
Meadow: (laughs)
Pamela: … I totally love them.
Meadow: Yeah, I have to admit. When I, that was a very late addition. When my mom said we were adding a section on fairies.
Pamela: (laughs).
Meadow: I have to say, there was a part of me that was, like, ‘Oh, God, mom. No …’
Pamela: (laughs).
Meadow … ‘That’s, that’s too out there!’ But she persevered, and now I’m delighted that it’s in there.
Because it is a- a- an especially because we’re talking about children. A fairly meal is a wonderful …
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: … Meal to do with children.
Pamela: Yeah. And then elemental meals. Eh, can you talk a little bit about those? The different, fire, earth, water, and air.
Meadow: Yeah, that’s a really fun, it’s in a, chapter called ”Cooking up Magic.”
Pamela: Mmm.
Meadow: And it’s so fun to get that alchemy and magic going in the kitchen. And you can approach an elemental meal in many different ways, that I’m sure you do in your elemental cooking. And, o- one way is to create like a medicine wheel …
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: … Meal. Where, the, as I said my family is of Native American heritage. And it’s that idea that circles of life. That, you know, that, four elements. Air, water, fire and earth. And you can create
a meal dedicated to harmony, and well-be- and balance, using that idea of bringing all those harmonies in. Or you can create a meal dedicated to one of those, if you want to bring more balance to that particular area of your life.
Pamela: Mm.
Meadow: Or your, you know, maybe a water meal, if you’re dealing with some emotions. And we give a number of different suggestions on how you can interpret that. That a … water meal might be one where it’s very emotional. Maybe you get really emotional music, and set the stage with that. Or, maybe you eat soup …
Pamela: Mmh.
Meadow: … Which is made of water.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: Or for a fire meal, maybe you cook it all with fire. But maybe it’s something that’s fire-y.
Like you listen …
Pamela: Like, chili powder.
Meadow: Chili powders, and chili peppers, or something that’s red, and orange, and those bright
colors. Or maybe, you listen to The Doors. You know, come on …
Pamela: Uhuh.
Meadow: … baby light my fire …
Pamela: Oh, yeah-yeah.
Meadow: You know there’s a number of different ways you can interpret it. And that’s kind of what makes it fun. That you can see what works best for you. And what excites you. Because, I know for me, I don’t like doing something because I think it’s a good idea, or someone tells me so. It’s fun when you get the opportunity of … here’s an elemental meal, now interpret it. What says …
Pamela: Mmm.
Meadow: … Air, to you?
Pamela: What would say air?
Meadow: And that, that can be a tricky one. Because it isn’t as specific, like water for soup …
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: … And it can, eh, we sug- we have a number of different suggestions in the book of what you can do for an air meal. One, and this is when you get to use your creative juices. Sometimes when I think of air, I think of, like, wheat fields.
Pamela: Mmm.
Meadow: Flowing in the- and I actually don’t eat wheat, but, you know, but grains (laughs) …
Pamela: Yeah, right.
Meadow: … Sort of like blowing in the wind.
Pamela: Uhuh.
Meadow: Air is light. So maybe you have salads. And it’s a very light, meal. Or, alternatively, um …
it can- I forgot what I was going to say.
Pamela: Is air …
Meadow: (laughs)
Pamela: … More the, eh, like the creative ideas as mental?
Meadow: It’s very mental. So in other …
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: Oh, thank you. That’s what it was. Another way to do an air meal, is to be very methodical about the way that you plan it. Regardless of what you choose to eat, and, use those mental capabilities, and … pl- no one can see that I’m talking with my hands here. Showing with my hands, like (laughs) what to do. But, but that way of being very precise. And deliberate, with the way that you plan it. Maybe it’s, sometimes when I think of an air meal, it might be, I think of Japanese food in a way. Some of it’s very precise …
Pamela: Mmm.
Meadow: … And lined up. Or miso soup with a little tiny bits of tofu, and seaweed. Something that, that brings about those mental capabilities.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: Or the color yellow. Is also often associated with air.
Pamela: Aha.
Meadow: So you could, add in, yellow foods as well.
Pamela: Cool. Cool. And last question. I remember when I was at Living Lights, Culinary Arts Institute, they said, ‘Wear a chef coat. Every day. Because when you get out there in the world, you will, almost take on a different feel when you’re preparing food.’ And you mention all these different aprons in your book, and you talk about having a magic pocket.
Meadow: (laughs)
Pamela: And I wondered how many different aprons you have? And if it’s a ritual you have, of putting on that apron, and going to work?
Meadow: I don’t even know how many aprons I have. I have a lot. I have three chef-coats …
Pamela: Yeah?
Meadow: … And a whole heck-of-a-lot of aprons, but for me, it isn’t a way, like … my mom wrote in the book about the, it being a sacred vestment. Her mother was, and my grandmother, did a- worked in test kitchens. And my mom said, you know in the fifties, she remembered, like, you know, following along, you know, behind her mom, and her mom would put on that apron and tie it.
Pamela: Mmm.
Meadow: … And she knew, that life was about to change.
Pamela: Aha.
Meadow: That is was that transition, from normal life …
Pamela: Right.
Meadow: … To her mom being in the kitchen, and creating panes- …
Pamela: Business.
Meadow: Yeah. Business. Or kitchen magic!
Pamela: Yes.
Meadow: And for me it’s similar. I- I equate it almost for me, as, I feel like it’s my Clark Kent …
Pamela: (laughs)
Meadow: Superman transformation. Like, he had his cape and I’ve got my apron.
Pamela: (laughs)
Meadow: And I laugh, because often the clothes that I’m wearing … are far grungier than my aprons. But I still put on that apron, supposedly to protect my clothes.
Pamela: Mmm.
Meadow: But it’s really for me. It’s that symbolic change. It’s that change of energy. I’m now stepping into the kitchen.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: And, I am now going to cook a meal.
Pamela: Mmmh.
Meadow: And for me that i-, and, I do it even when I- you know, by myself, when I’m cooking at home [unintelligible].
Pamela: Really?
Meadow: You know. I’ll be warming something up on the oven, and sometimes I’ll still (laughs) put on …
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: … An apron.
Pamela: It sounds like you’ve, uhm, had this since you were very, very little. I heard about your very first thing you created. But for a lot of us, like, I was never in the kitchen. I think it takes a whole mental paradigm shift … to start putting more thought into our food, and the meals that we create. So, you know, some people are just naturally born with it. And it comes naturally. And other people, just have to shift their thinking around. I think once we do that, uhm, it’s really very easy. It’s just that decision that we need to make, to really love ourselves.
Meadow: Mmmh.
Pamela: Comes down to, uh, do you love yourself enough to go to the store a few extra times a week to get the fresh produce?
Meadow: And that … that is what it comes down to.
Pamela: Self love, huh? Yeah. Awesome. Well you’re just beaming right now!
Meadow: (laughs)
Pamela: For those of you who can’t see her face, and your skin is just so clear, and beaming. Is there anything you’d like to leave our listeners with? About the Mystic Cookbook, or anything else?
Meadow: I’ll just say, eat what you love, and love what you eat.
Pamela: Mmh.
Meadow: And, for anybody who wants to continue to do this, I’d love to, connecting with people on Facebook and sharing recipes, or on the website. And, just a wonderful way, I love hear what people are doing in their kitchens.
Pamela: Mmmh. And you do retreats, as well?
Meadow: We do. Um, not specifically de- dedicated to food. I do the cooking for it …
Pamela: Right. OK.
Meadow: … At another retreat. But we are working toward on having some specific …
Pamela: Yeah.
Meadow: … Food-related retreats, as well.
Pamela: The one you had, I saw on your website, before the book came out. I said, ‘I am gonna be there!’ And then it was my dad’s eightieth birthday …
Meadow: Oh, no.
Pamela: … So I was like, ‘Aaaw, I’m not gonna be there!’
Meadow: Yeah, that was wonderful. I miss the chef weekend.
Pamela: Was it? Yeah, that sounded really great.
Meadow: Hopefully we’ll be adding more to the calendar.
Pamela: Awesome. All right. Well, thanks a lot, Meadow. It was great to have you here.
Meadow: Thank you, it was such a joy.
www.TheMysticChef.com (Meadow)
www.ElementalCuisine.com (Pamela)
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